The Urban Playground

heaven forbid you take a field trip outside that 4block radius and the granville strip to other places in downtown which are much more lively than your block. ;)

been to gastown, yaletown, west end, china town, stanley park, or anywhere other than granville street and the art gallery? How about the mountains in north van, commercial drive, granville island, UBC or a neighborhood park or beach?

now, I agree vancouver is rather snobby, especially in the downtown core. and when it comes to laying back and letting lose in your neighborhood; as a whole we take ourselves too seriously... but sheesh man, you make it sound like there is nothing to do. get on that bike and learn a new route to english bay.

This is kind of a 2 sided-coin. You need activities to draw people to the downtown but their has to be enough incentive (profit) for people to start something.

For example.. downtown T.O. has really changed since i moved here 11 years ago!! This is mostly due to those lovely (ugly?) condos... the largest and fastest growing condo market in N.America, has some advantages. People who generally move into condos are usually young, no kids; and have disposable income... there are areas of the downtown which are now catering to it that would have been considered suicide before (the Drake is the prime example).

The reason downtown Van is dead after business hours is exactly that there is no one there. I live in the beaches/Leslieville area of T.O. after work I spend my time/money in that area, because i want to have a great (eg. coffee place) in walking distance.

Now you have one advantage... the winter Olympics. Maybe pointing out to the city that a vibrant after hours downtown would be a good thing for tourists may help them encourage "fun" downtown. Otherwise my suggestion is to support as much as possible the businesses that are open and would be considered "fun" as much as possible.

Chad, I live about a 10minute walk from English bay. When I'm looking for something to do, somewhere to go, that's where I go to do it. My beef isn't with the surrounding areas, but with the core itself -- as well as a few of the areas you mention. Come 5 or 6pm, Downtown, Gastown, and Chinatown all go offline. People disappear and go "away" to to the more interesting parts of the city. Those who do live in those areas usually drive out to the more interesting parts of the city leaving these spaces lifeless.

I'm not saying that those other parts of Vancouver aren't interesting or not worth visiting. I'm saying that there's no reason that the neglected parts of the city should be left to rot simply because the vast majority of the Lower Mainland happens to spend 8hours a day there. In fact, I'm saying that these areas should be more vibrant as a result.

Going to Andrea's comment, I think you're coming from the wrong perspective as well. We can't expect the city to take any action to create a vibrant after-hours city because it's not their department. We have to use the space, business has to see the space being used and keep their doors open to cash in. Of course, the city could do wonders for that process by breaking up the car throughways through the city (Burrard, Georgia, and to a lesser extent, Howe & Seymour), but we have to come first. Cities are fun because the people make it that way and the government lets them do it.

I think what you mean is, come 5-6pm, certain parts of downtown (eg financial district, by the waterfront) get quieter but other parts such as Robson St/Granville St/Burrard/Davie area stay quite vibrant and busy. You also have to take into consideration our lovely winter weather which is damp, rainy, cold and this year, snowy. Does this really make for a pedestrian friendly outdoors environment? Now also take into consideration that the majority of your return here to Vancouver has been in the winter. So with all due respect, you returned in November. When spring and summer is in full bloom, I'd like you to reconsider what you've just said.

Vancouver can be considered a "no-fun" city due to its lack of "nightlife" but you know what? If lack of nightlife means there's fewer bars and drunken people out there, falling over their own feet - I'm cool with that. I've spoken to a few international students who hate this city and can't wait to leave because they miss the nightlife of their own country. They miss the fact that our bars close at 4am and not later. They miss the fact that there aren't enough clubs for them to hang out at ....

I understand what you mean about Chinatown which is why I'm part of the committee to help create social change. But the difference with Chinatown isn't the "fun" element but rather, it's social, cultural and drug related. So you can't lump it in together with other parts of the city that are either more upscale and/or with other interests/problems.

Have you seen Commercial Dr during the summer? Or how vibrant Main St is getting to be lately? Have you seen the dragonboats going out to practice on False Creek and watched the prep for Alcan festival all along Granville Island to Stanley Park? I suggest that the next time you're able to attend the Chinatown meeting to talk to Helen who's a Vancouver city planner. She's a great resource.

I wrote something more but your site was having problems and my comment got lost. :(

I'm not sure how else I can explain this without sounding repetitive but no one seems to be understanding me. I am not complaining about how boring areas outside of the "dead" areas are because they're not boring.

I'm saying that a large portion of the area where we spend roughly ten hours of our day is dead for the other fourteen. That's a waste of space and makes for an "un-fun" city.

I also take exception to your deliberate connection between nightlife and drunken bar fights. Frankly, I thought that you of all people would understand that being outside after 6 doesn't have to mean rampant alcoholism. In fact, I would suggest that it's a city's decision to put an emphasis on alcohol availability vs "family-friendly" spaces and events that leads to that assumption.

I'll make this as plain as I can say it: Empty city areas are boring and a waste of good space. We can fix that by intentionally trying to make those spaces more interesting and the inevitable result will be more business and more activity in those spaces.

I don't care that Robson street is open late, or that Main Street is "vibrant" (which is arguable). I'm not talking about those areas. I'm talking about a huge part of downtown that goes dead all weekend and after 6pm every day and how we could all make it better.

Most of those "dead" areas are banks and corporate businesses or cater to the corporate companies which are why they're quiet after 6pm. If you've spent most of your day working in that part of town, would you really want to spend more of your own personal time there as well? People do like to spend time outside of those areas for a specific reason, you know?

I did mention that being outside past 6pm had other merits (eg I've mentioned other places/family activities like dragon boating, hanging out at Commercial Dr, shopping on Robson, etc. I think you chose to read negativity. I said "Vancouver CAN BE considered (by others no less!) a no-fun city due to bar hours, etc" But in no way did I say, "Vancouver needs more bars and drunkenness in order to be more fun and this is why I rather Vancouver have little or no night life." Geez.

It may be the city's decision to ensure alcohol isn't rampantly available everywhere but for the most part, it's individuals who volunteer to organize events and festivals within the city that make it a better place.

Main st - sure can be arguable but so are your complaints. So aside from complaining, what are YOU going to do about it? :)

I think we have differing viewpoints on how you see things in Vancouver, Dan. But you know, I respect your opinions and ideas since we're both so community based. Just that MY thinking may not be in line with your thinking and my areas of interest differ from yours - but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

This discussion isn't making any sense. I say something, and then you say something almost completely unrelated. So I repeat myself, and then you repeat yourself. So nevermind.

*rolls eyes*

Fine.

I find this post intriguing because I live downtown and find it anything but dead. I think rather than downtown (which includes Granville and Robson etc) you are referring to the Commercial Business District which has been specifically zoned to allow office and some commercial but no housing.

Most cities in North America that I've experienced - the whole downtown goes dead... not just 4 blocks of office towers but the whole shebang... because no one lives there. Like Tampa - after work if you want to see people the guy at the hotel (downtown) told me I'd have to go to the mall (!). That's a dead downtown. Vancouver's few blocks that are quiet at night, not too bad in my eyes. Because 1 block over there's a bustling busy sreet and cafes too crowded to get a table at. But experiences differ.

Which is not to say that I in any way disagree with the idea of making all public spaces more liveable... I fully support hammocks everywhere.

Thanks Lisa for clarifying what I couldn't. You're right, I guess I use the term "Downtown" to refer to that dead zone when I really should be using "the commercial business district", and you're right when you point out that most cities in North America are in the same situation if not worse.

I guess what I was trying to point out is that if we want to see a space improved (and I do believe that the CBD can and should be improved), we have to take possession of it first, rather than abandon it and wait for an outside force (business, government) to make it more hospitable. New Mind Space did a very successful Capture the Flag game in Toronto's financial district -- maybe we should do something similarly brazen and fun.

Had too jump in sorry.....Thank you Lisa nicely said.....My concern is that there appears to be a perception that the property owners of the urban core infrastructure that is refered to; should not be involved with improving or opening up the public spaces surrounding their space? The idea that we should play "capture the flag" games is absurd....Daniel....Business Improvement Associations and Municipal friends need to be involved to open up spaces...there is no magic "elixer" to fix it.....don`t turn the cheek on the $$ that will help your agenda.
The irony is many Urbanites love to hate it.........Get to know your BIA people they will help.....I did :->

take care...have fun.....

While what you say may be true for your BIA, it's been my experience that the one you're talking about is by far the exception. BIA's like to keep their public spaces as private as possible, claiming ownership of the street like it's theirs to patrol and do away with any activity they don't like. Just look at the boom in "Downtown Ambassadors" in urban centres across the country if you're wanting proof of their intentions.

You also suggested that the "property owners" should be involved in the improvement and opening of public spaces and I couldn't agree more. However you seem to be under the impression that private interests somehow "own" public spaces, and while true to a very limited extent, the fact is that public spaces are owned by the people and that as the owners, we have every right (and some might argue the responsibility) to improve these spaces.

As for running a Capture the Flag game downtown downtown, your quick dismissal is offencive. This city belongs to the people who live in it, the streets are our backyard. Why would you assert the preferences of the BIAs over the rights of people? So long as no damage is done and everyone enjoys themselves, there's no reason to object. Besides it's already been done in Toronto, where it was met with widespread support.

Lastly, I never claimed that this sort of action was some kind of elixir, far from it. What I said was that the people had to be first because businesses won't stay open in the hopes of the people using the space after 6pm, and government won't move to make a city more "fun" because that's not their job -- it's ours.

I'm more than happy to work with a BIA to make the CBD more interesting, but I'm just as happy to not work with them if they're content with keeping that area dead after 6pm.

Fair enough....just the fact that you have created discusion and we all have opinions...I respect that.....My experience in things "Municipal" is that you need to build positive relationships with By-Law People-Surface Operating People-Law Officers and Business Owners to get "buy In" The sad reality is that $$ ers drive things and yes selling entertainment and drinks bring people after 6pm ...albeit some of the aftermath and drunkeness is personally objectionable.....I know here in " Hicksville" Ottawa....last summer we had movie nights out doors (Projection screens) .....Buskers...Cook Offs ...Music and theatre in the parks....I am just saying doing it alone without some "Capital" (no pun intended) makes it tough "sledding"....It was not my intent to offend with my comment on the "flag" thing..... my apologies.....take care......good topic......